Official Luthiers Forum!

If a posting by you or to you gets under your skin, please send an IM to the other party and discuss the matter in private. I don't know about others here but I have no intrest reading contentious postings that are not imparting building info (other than the many funny quips).
Arguments in public have a nasty habit of degrading both participants.
I am tired of hearing about the forum losing valuable members because of this type of activity.bob J39040.4721875

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Just catching up Bob?

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Yes I am catching up. Sorry if I am beating a dead horse. Saw the posting and felt I had to state my feelings about the subject.

I'll offer a dissenting note here....

I frequent a number of boards in other fields, that are rather contentious. Yet the amount of information that springs from the arguments that rage is enormous. The important thing is to not devolve into name-calling, etc. I don't feel that disagreement per se is problematic - arguments can be informative, as long as they are kept as civil as possible.

In a field like lutherie, where there are few is any univerally accepted truths, disagreement is only to be expected. This is, in my opinion, what makes things so interesting. I love seeing people discuss their often wildly differing reasonings....

In truth, a factor mentioned several times in a recent departure was the use of IM's... so I would say keep your disagreement public, not private.

I couldn’t agree with you more Kevin. In fact I’ll go one further. I find the disagreements some of the more interesting, and informative posts.

I see nothing wrong with those threads. The problem comes in when someone is so thin skinned he/she feels they need to retaliate with a nasty PM. If they are that thin skinned they probably should not be posting on a public forum in the first place.
Joe Beaver39040.5644675926

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

[quote=drfuzz]In truth, a factor mentioned several times in a recent departure was the use of IM's... so I would say keep your disagreement public, not private.[/quote].

This I agree with Kevin. Well stated.Rod True39040.5651388889

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Disagreements are healthy for information and we all have judgement to discern what truths we'd love to believe. All that i'm hoping is that when you take sides, let's remember that the forum itself should never be divided for it is over it all. Community first, ideas second.

Words to live by Serge!

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"It's a Tone Faerie thing"
"Da goal is to sharpen ur wit as well as ye Sgian Dubh"
"Sippin Loch Dhu @Black lake" ,Kirby O...

science is not fact.

it is a series of argued theories.

For instance......

to bend sides you need a hot pipe or a fox bender

I claim I can do it with a wallpaper stripper.

This is not a Yuri Gellar "I can fix your watch and bend your spoon claim" (BTW, how comwe he doesn't bend watches & fix spoons?) I CAN band sides like this and I have the pics to prove it.

now the world of lutherie can agree that there are at least 3 ways to bend sides.

I MAY disagree with how you do something, but the chances are that you have more experience than me anyway, so ignore me.

If I give bad advice it's through ignorance not malice and any suggestions I make are genuinely intended as helpful, not "here's a can of petrol and a match......" sort of suggestions.

I LOVE this place because all I have experienced is good manners, good advice, mutual respect and a fair bit of fun along the way.

Keep it up all you good people, if you want to argue, go to a forum where they enjoy fighting.

I for one have never seen any of the rows that the fuss is about so as usual I'll wander along, blissfully unaware of the mayhem which may or may not be building up around me!!

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My soundclick xx luthier blog xx luthier soundclick

I think the recent unpleasantness ( that's what they used to call the civil war) was caused by PMs. I think we should keep everything public not private. IMHO.

                        Peace,Paul

i have refrained from commenting of late on these issues as i am an ancient troglodyte utterly lacking in any trace of political correctness, but the state of affairs is getting ridiculous. a sanitized, much editted statement of my view on the current state of affairs is:

in a forum such as this if one feels constrained by fear of offending by voicing honest opinion then the forum might just as well not exist. it becomes just another mutual admiration society, and in fact there may be too much of that already.

whilst i endeavor to treat everyone with courtesy and consideration, i am sufficiently aged that the bulk of my life has been lived in a more robust world, and thus i have little time for nor do i overly concern myself with molly coddling thin skinned, delicate egos.

there has been much discussion on the forum of respect without evident recognition of the fact that courtesy and respect are entirely different things. i feel that courtesy is intrinsically due to a person until it is demonstrated that the recipient is unworthy of same.

respect is earned in any number of manners, but once earned is seldom lost. the opinions of folks like al, mario, rick, and many others merit respect based on their accomplishments.

i well recognize that expressing opinion in a sarcastic or dismissive fashion is not helpful, and try to watch that i do not do so. however, i know i often fail in this, both here and in the real world.

so if one expresses opinion, one should be prepared to have others express their disagreement with at least equal vigour. if one's stated question evidences a lack of understanding of the wider implications of the matters about which they enquire, then one should be thankful that someone with hard earned experience and knowledge cares enough to try to make the totallity of the situation clear.

now i expect that i will incur disagreement from some, agreement from others, and wrathful and indignant vituperations from a few. if so, so be it!

but life is too short to waste time reading puerile "he was mean to me" posts with seemingly endless ensuing commiserations and "he was not"s. i would much prefer to hear good sense from others the like of al, mario, howard, rick, etc., those who, as some put it, have walked the walk, not just talked the talk. otherwise there is no point coming here!

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael] i am an ancient troglodyte utterly lacking in any trace of political correctness, [/QUOTE]

Good god! I think that must be what I am!!! I agree with everything you said!!! Is there no hope for us?

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Excellent vituperation Michael.

Positive PM's are good, Negative PM's are bad.

Of course, I'd rather have a compliment in public than in private.

RIP,(rest in peace) the negative PM. Adopt this policy and you'll have a better OLF.

Poor horse.....we should let him Rest In Peace...all this beating him ain't doin' any good.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Poor horse.....we should let him Rest In Peace...all this beating him ain't doin' any good.[/QUOTE]
I don’t know Don. I’d agree with you if the underlying cause of the dispute had been addressed, but as far as I know it has not.

Seems to me that James put his finger right on the problem, ‘Positive PM's are good, Negative PM's are bad’.

I think the powers here should take a stand against negative PM’s. When they are reported to them, they should take action. What kind of action? I don’t know, maybe a PM from the OLF to the offender with a form letter reprimanding them for using the OLF facilities for negative messages would do it.

No one wants to be a policeman but when you have 1000 members the need will arise.

Oh, by the way, this is my last comment on this matter. If action is taken maybe it will never happen again and we all win.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I was going to use CA on a rosette today and it occurred to me that I don't have any shellac mixed up, so I was wondering, could someone recommend a good premixed shellac? Something that would work good for doing both binding channels and rosette channels prior to using CA? Can this be found in a spray can?

It may appear that this post is in the wrong thread, but I assure you, its not.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Yes, Lance. I have used spray shellac with no trouble what so ever. It seems to me it was Zinser? It was in a yellow and black can. I got it at Sherwin Williams across the street from my office.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Luthier/ProductReviews/Mater ials/
Zinsser/zinsser.htmlChas Freeborn39041.381412037

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

In the absence of Mario, let me just say:

   Sigh......


Ron

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] [QUOTE=ToddStock] Each one of these threads gets worse. [/QUOTE]

Agreed.......

We were asked on several occasions by our hosts in no uncertain terms to end this discussion. A previous thread was locked for this exact reason. It only leads to more division AND the potential for further conflict.

[/QUOTE]

I can understand why people would wish to quit discussing this... but, as my mama said, "You can ignore the skunk when it comes in the house, you can even call it a cat, but it ain't gonna smell any better till you deal with the problem". The fact that it keeps coming up would make me feel that it may still need discussion - civil discussion, of course. Seems to me that, instead of division, people are striving to reach some kind of board consensus on an issue that appears to have struck a nerve...

I like what you just said Kevin, could you care to elaborate your thought further more please?

I think you're on to something here and it smells like honesty and in a respectful way which are qualities that i admire in someone, please talk wisdom brother!

I had a really large post to add here, but I deleated it, I decided not to flog that horse anymore.

Spray bomb shellac?



This stuff says it's wax free. I've just used the seal coat with a rag myself for rosettes.

PS. the initial post should have been put in the off topic section folks.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

For goodness sake guys, can't you just let it settle?

Just leave it alone and stop stir'in up the crap, wait a while and see what happens, walk away from it and just let it die down and the solution will become clear.

Then, after a while, you can better access just what it is that you are going to end up with out of this whole situation.....after all, you can remove wax from regular shellac by letting it settle and then decanting the liquid, I am sure this would make a fine sealer and cheap to.

(I agree with Rod, the initial post is not build specific. Lets try to stay on topic or we loose the point of this place)

Cheers

Kim